Mississippi Happenings

Welcome to this week's edition of Mississippi Happenings.

We are a progressive podcast and we want to get the message out to all Mississippians.

I am your co-host, Jim Newman, uh our co-host is out today.

He's, as many of you know, he's recovering from a broken arm and he had uh physical
therapy today.

So he won't be joining us.

My guess is he's.

in his easy chair asleep where he needs to be.

ah But if Jim was here, I know there's two things that he would share with us.

Number one, Trump wants to rename or is going to rename the Department of Defense to the
Department of War.

How's that for Trump being Trump?

And also what really scares me, and as you notice, I do look uh at my laptop quite a bit.

ah We do know that Florida plans to scrap kid vaccine mandates.

uh And also the Health and Human Services employees demand RFK Jr.

So in Florida, will soon be a not, you can opt out of the vaccines and quite frankly, that
is a scary thought.

And my fear would be Mississippi would uh could also do that as well.

Now we're going to talk about uh a topic that's very important to me.

It affects my life, oh my son's.

life and also my grandson's health and well-being.

In August of 22, there was a report out, a federal report, and this is from Mississippi
Today, August 22nd.

Mississippi fails to ensure special ed students get services.

And we know that

Trump wants to get rid of the Department of Education.

We've talked a little bit about that before and what that's going to be doing.

I love the article and today joining us is Danita Munday.

Danita is, she's a graduate of Delta State, bachelor's of arts.

She's a, has her master of education in school psychology and also she's got postgraduate
hours toward a

Education Specialist degree in School Psychology.

uh She is an advocate uh for children with special needs and their families.

Danita, welcome and it's so good to uh have you with us.

Thank you for having me.

Good.

OK.

uh I love this article.

I love it.

And I love, I love, you just call it like you see it, don't you, Danita?

Good.

Good.

uh In this report, ah you're quoted as saying, people working within the system have been
concerned Mississippi is not compliant.

uh

And this is a validation of what we have been saying for years.

You go on to say, this is, I just love this, and this is one of the reasons why I wanted
to talk to you.

You said, without that system, Munday said the State Education Department is taking a
band-aid approach to

special education violations.

They're stepping on bugs.

oh They've been found out our non-compliance through complaints and writing corrective
action plans to fix it for one child.

So, Danita, once again, thank you for being here and let's talk about children with
special needs and their families.

So talk to us about this article.

okay.

um So we have been writing to the United States Department of Education for years.

And when I say we, I mean advocates and um attorneys and families because we've been
concerned that when we get correction of our compliance for one child, it doesn't

translate into systemic correction.

So that's where the stepping on bugs comes from.

I said that it's like your house is overrun with roaches instead of finding out where
they're coming from, fixing that root cause, getting exterminator, they're just stepping

on bugs.

And it's that idea that it's kind of whack-a-mole is what we say too, is we get this one
fixed and then, you know, something else pops up.

So we can fix the same thing in one district for one kid.

And the next day I go to a meeting and it's that same violations are occurring.

So it doesn't make sense to us because it's a lot of, it's time, it's energy, it's money,
it's other resources that are being utilized to fix one problem at a time when the whole

thing is unraveling.

Gotcha.

uh So uh do you feel like with this report, I get the impression that this is something
that you've been fighting for years.

so this is, does this give you, I guess you get a validation that yes, this is something
that you guys have been preaching.

and teaching and fighting for years.

Is that a fair statement?

That is a fair statement.

And so yes, I was very excited when the report came out.

I was afraid that we would not see it because they were here for their monitoring visit.

The USDE was here for their monitoring visit in 2004.

And then we had change of administration and upheaval at the US Department of Education.

And so we were very concerned that we were never going to see this report, that it just
got lost in the shuffle.

So when it came out,

people were texting me excitedly, did you see the report?

Did you see the report?

And I was like, I can't wait to see this report.

And so I did, I delved into it and I was very excited about it.

I was like, oh, they got that.

Oh, they got that.

I was really excited to see the things that they oh cited the state for because they're
the big issues.

uh

They're not little issues.

They're not band-aid issues.

They're not bug issues.

They are big overarching issues to the root.

Why can't y'all get in compliance in Mississippi?

Gotcha.

Where, and I tried to Google it, where, do you know the website that I could find that
report, the 47 page report we're talking about?

You can, if you Google part B IDEA USDE DMS 2004 Mississippi.

It will take you, you'll get a link that will take you to the US Department of Education
to the the monitoring division and they have the

reports on there by years by part and by state.

So you can, when you get to the part that says part B or part C, you click on part B, you
scroll down past the list and go further down until you see the big letters Mississippi.

Got it.

Okay.

Okay, we're good.

That's I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, it's okay.

There are 10 issues that they identified and that's a lot.

I looked at all the other reports that I believe there were 19 reports for 2009, 2024.

so it's 19, so they split it up.

It's a cycle.

19 states and territories were in the cycle for 2024.

So I did a comparison between

our report and other reports.

And New York's report was pretty bad.

It rivaled ours.

But there were other states that had very few violations noted.

I think Utah's report was four pages long, whereas ours is 47.

I didn't disagree with anything that they found.

I was a little surprised that they found some things to the detail that they found them,
like the data.

I sort of thought they would not be able to pinpoint the problems with the data, but they
did and made it clear that they're going to have to make some changes to collect the right

data and to interpret that data and to send it to USDE so it's meaningful.

Got it.

Okay, yeah, I'm bringing it up now.

So there was, ours was 47 pages and you said there was 19 issues that, okay.

10, I believe there are 10 citations.

Okay.

If you scroll down in that report for Mississippi, you'll see a chart.

After the letter, there's a chart.

And it lists the violations on the left side and it gives details on the right.

Wow.

Jim and I always, we talk about the grassroots issues facing all Mississippians.

And education is so important.

uh And it appears that, you know,

And we know that Donald Trump and uh Linda McMahon want to dismantle and uh eliminate the
Department of Education.

And my thoughts and people I've talked to and we will be, we've had one conversation with
Nancy Loom and we've got another one lined up with her as well.

And Danita, I know that you're not an expert on

this, but what would you kind of foresee some of the things happening in Mississippi if
the Department of Education is eliminated?

Well, David, here's my biggest concern.

As you look at this report and you see the violations that they found in our state, those
are violations that they found.

when we were in charge, right?

So without that next tier of general supervision and monitoring, what would happen?

This is a report based on our state making decisions.

This is the decisions that they make that are out of compliance with IDA that don't
properly implement the regulations.

the statute, the best practices, and it's this messy now with no oversight.

What in the world?

That's what we're worried about.

The other thing that people don't really understand about the Department of Ed is that
there are so many programs and offices in the USDE.

One of them,

One of the most important ones that we hear about all the time is the National Center for
Educational Statistics.

They are the people that are responsible for the nation's report card.

So we hear about the NAICS scores all the time.

We hear about the nation's report card.

We're making decisions.

you know, we're judging how we're doing as a state based on the national report card.

Well, that's

housed.

All that work is done in the National Center for Educational Statistics.

So what's going to happen to that office?

What's going to happen to that program?

Where are our stats going to be?

Where's that historical data going to be housed?

And that's just one.

It is just one issue, but it's a big one.

The other program that is the funds flow through the department, the US Department of
Education.

is for training and technical assistance and research.

Who's going to be doing that research?

Who's going to be collecting that information about best practices?

Who's going to be collecting information about our schools, disproportionality, about kids
with disabilities, about seclusion and restraints?

uh I don't have answers to those questions.

uh The common thing we hear is it's going to help them.

in human services.

And that's very concerning to me.

Where's the expertise gonna go?

Where's it gonna come from if it gets moved to health and human services?

Where's that data gonna go?

We're the experts that know how to look at that data and to draw conclusions from that
data.

We don't have those answers.

So I don't like the unknown.

I'm afraid of the unknown.

I'm with you.

I'm with you and on that, you know, and, know, if we're, mean, Mississippi is still
suffering and I'm glad you brought up about the statistics because it appears to me, my

perception is that Governor Reeves likes to quote those statistics and how Mississippi was
49th in education and now we're

whatever, you know, 34th or 29th, I don't know.

either.

says, but I don't know if that's where we really are.

One of the reasons we went up in rankings this year is that a lot of states regressed.

They lost points.

We didn't necessarily move up a lot of points.

We moved up, I think, two points in reading, which is far better.

Let me give credit there.

It's far better than losing points, for sure.

uh But it's a 500-point scale, and we moved up two points.

and I keep hearing that that's meteoric.

Two points on a 500 point scale.

Just not that many points to me.

But other states did lose.

I think the state that was just above us in the previous uh NAEP results fell five points.

Or they fell three points and we rose two.

So now we're five points above them.

That's not so much about our growth as somebody else's failure.

Gotcha.

Gotcha.

You gotta see where, you know, what's the relevance there.

The other thing that happens when I hear about next scores is that I hear comparisons
between percentages.

You just can't compare percentage of growth versus for your state against somebody else's
percentage of growth.

Mathematically, you can't do that.

But it gets you.

It does get uh used and it does get reported.

We had the highest percentage of gain than any other state.

So here's my brief analogy.

I have a dollar and you have a hundred dollars and I make a hundred percent gain.

Now I have two dollars.

You make fifty percent gain but you have a hundred and fifty dollars.

Now, do I want to be the person that has $1 in my pocket and doubled it to $2?

Or do I want to be the person that has $100 in my pocket and raised by 50 % and has $150?

I'd rather be that person with $150 in my pocket than to double my growth.

So it's not meaningful in context.

I'm out context.

It's not meaningful unless you're using the correct context.

And sometimes I see numbers getting compared uh and I think, that's apples to oranges.

You really can't do that either.

uh My number that I looked at to see if it's improving is what is our literacy rate?

Our literacy rate for fourth graders, and I hope I'm not saying this wrong,

from the 2024 NAIC.

It's 36%.

36 % of our fourth graders are literate.

That means 64 % of our fourth graders are functionally illiterate, which means that if
they read a story, they would not be able to draw accurate conclusions.

They can read basic words, but they don't read with understanding.

They're not able to write from what they learned.

And that is, to me,

the statistic that we need to look at.

Now nobody talks about eighth grade.

So if you look at the eighth grade literacy rate, last year I believe it was 22%.

My question that no one's been able to answer for me is how do we teach kids to read at
fourth grade and then they get to eighth grade and they lose their literacy skills?

There may be a.

Very valid explanation and maybe it is comparing apples to oranges.

But aren't we more concerned about the literacy rate for our eighth graders as they enter
high school?

I mean, we absolutely should be worried about our fourth graders.

I'm not trying to prioritize eighth graders over fourth graders.

But while we're celebrating those fourth graders, it's not translating to eighth grade.

eighth grade scores to me are super important because those kids are about to go into high
school.

And when you're looking at a 22 % literacy rate in eighth grade, realistically, how many
of those kids are going to be prepared to go to college or some other post-secondary

setting, a work, a community college program, a trade school?

if you are 22 % of your population is literate, that does not translate to successful
education system to me.

And I'm so glad that, know, it's with, and a lot of times Jim and I learned these when we
did the podcast.

and to quote Paul Harvey, rest his soul we get the rest of the story.

So that's greatly appreciated.

You know, this is a 500 point scale and we move up two

And no, we're not going to hear that from the Republican lawmakers.

And like you say, and Nancy Loomis mentioned it before, there has been some improvement.

But a literacy rate of 36%.

And one of the things that we talk about, and maybe you could expand on this as well.

uh

is that, and we see it happen all the time.

We know that the state of Mississippi is wanting to do school vouchers.

We know that they are wanting to take away money from the public school systems and give
it to private schools.

don't understand that.

I had a conversation with the gentleman and he made the comment, well, look, I paid my
taxes oh and I should be able to send my child where I want him to go.

Well, you know, that's great.

oh At the same time, I pay my taxes to fix your streets that I never drive on.

So oh just...

I get it.

And here's the reality.

I grew up in the Mississippi Delta.

I worked in the Mississippi Delta in Indianola School District for five years.

It's you know, it was and they're doing great now.

I like to say I did keep up with them and they have they really moved up in their
accreditation rating and I'm impressed with the work that they have done there.

But it's difficult.

We all know it's difficult and we know what that looks

you know what that looks like, uh know, poverty and people struggling and you know, moms
working at night was my biggest problem.

When I worked in the school district is that my moms worked at night.

They worked in the catfish industry and they slept during the day.

So, I mean, there's so many problems that are related to the economy and other factors.

uh But

When you have a poor school district and you live in a place like the Delta, offering a
voucher to a family is meaningless because there's no place for them to take that voucher.

Where are they going to go with that voucher?

And then when you start talking about kids with disabilities and kids that are struggling.

Those programs, those private programs can just say, we don't have a program for you.

They don't have to take your voucher.

So who, it feels to me, this is my opinion, it feels to me like the people that are going
to benefit from the voucher are not the people that really need it.

Yeah.

And we have to educate, yeah, we have to educate the entire workforce.

We can't just, okay, we're going to educate your kids because your kids are in DeSoto
County.

We're going to educate your kids because you're in Lee County, but we're not going to
educate your kids because they're in Cleveland, Mississippi or in Denola or in the Delta.

And I know, and that's a whole nother.

a whole other issue as far as we talk about that because yeah, and I don't want to take,
yes ma'am.

I was just going to say because I am advocate of children with disabilities and their
families that I am partly in favor of those vouchers because when a school district is

failing that child with a disability so significantly and they can get that ESA, it's uh
sort of a voucher system, to go to a program to meet their needs.

And people say, well, kids in general ed should have that same opportunity.

Kids in general ed already have, you know, much better resources around them.

They don't have the struggles of having a disability.

They don't need accommodations, modifications.

They don't need specially designed instruction.

They don't need related services like OTPT, language speech therapy.

So, uh

do support vouchers, but it is the same problem for kids with disabilities.

Because if I'm in Indianola and I have a disability and I get a voucher, I still don't
have a place to go that will meet my needs.

I would like to see money being spent on improving the resources, uh increasing teacher
pay.

And people think I'm a teacher voucher, I'm not.

I love a good teacher.

ah What would we do without teachers?

I mean, they're amazing.

uh I didn't want to teach.

I got a degree in education, but I knew I could not sit in a classroom.

That was not my calling.

It's a gift to be a teacher, but we don't treat our teachers like they're valuable.

And again, that's another subject.

But while we're on the vouchers, I just wanted to say I do support vouchers because I've
seen my clients benefit from it.

where they're in a school, they are nonverbal, they have autism, and they wander off
campus and nobody knows they're missing until somebody finds them and brings them back or

they do a head count.

That's just dangerous.

ah Forget reading, writing, arithmetic.

Those kids aren't safe.

They're being restrained.

They're being secluded because the school doesn't have the resources.

to provide the right services in the right way.

And that's very concerning.

And so it goes back to that.

If we're taking money from public school and putting it in private school, who's going to
benefit the most and who's going to be hurt the most?

And I'm vested in my kids and families with disabilities.

And so I would like to see that money, those resources go.

back to the school to address those very real safety functional needs.

Understood.

uh On a personal note, I'll share this with you.

ah And you can uh help me with this and tell our listeners and our viewers some
information on what they need and what they can do.

uh I have a grandson who has special needs.

ah

And ah he's in the fourth grade.

He just started the fourth grade.

ah And they recently did, and I want to make sure I'm saying this right, an IEP, if that's
an Individual Education Plan, is that?

Yes, that's right.

one of the other things that they are doing, and yes, he's in DeSoto County and we have an
excellent school system here, oh is, and I don't recall what I was told, but is it like

someone helping him,

or next to him while he's in class or what is one on one is that.

One on one aid, paraprofessional, someone to assist them.

And paraprofessionals are very important.

They don't get paid a lot.

They're not credentialed.

Well, they may have a credential, but not a degree, not a licensed educator by any means.

But they're very important to keep kids safe, to help them with their daily.

activities, know, self-care, those kind of things, to get them to the right place so we
don't lose them.

um So they're very important, but they don't get paid very much.

They're hard to recruit.

They're hard to keep, just like teachers.

The same issues that affect a teacher affects those that support people.

Hmm.

I would assume that, uh with a, and you said, and make sure I said, quote, right.

Para professional or the one-on-one.

Um, I'm assuming also that yes, they're there for this child, but at the same time, they
could also be a good support person for a teacher.

who's in a classroom with 25 or 30 kids maybe could help out.

I don't know.

I'm just speculating as far as that.

David, this is what needs to happen when you're having an IEP meeting and the school has
agreed that your child needs a one-on-one aid.

You need to be having that discussion about how will their time be used because there was
a lot of unnecessary discombobulation between parents and schools about the expectation.

And so those conversations about expectations, is that one-on-one aid just for my child?

Or will they be assisting with other children?

Because once you say, okay, they're going to be assisting with a whole class, that doesn't
sound like 101, what are we talking about?

And so I think the way it should be done is to talk about services that that person will
provide.

Instead of talking about it's a person.

A person's not a service.

We need to know what service that person's providing.

to address what need.

So if you've got an aide in there that's there really for toileting and activities of
daily living, then that needs to be spelled out.

And to say in there, she's not technically one-on-one, there's an aide in the classroom
that will assist your child with activities of daily living.

So then we are not having that expectation or that misunderstanding that this person was
hired just for my child.

Can you do that?

Can you hire somebody for just one child?

And is it possible that one child would need a full-time aid?

Sure.

So the conversation is to take place about, well, what is their function?

What is their role?

How much time are they going to spend with my child to avoid conflict with your school?

Good.

oh That's good to know.

I think also earlier you mentioned that the first, I guess I got two questions.

So the first step would be the testing.

And I'm assuming like in the third grade or maybe there's been some difficulties learning.

oh

So I guess at the third grade, I guess it's like, when do they start, when do they do the
testing?

Okay, so just like that definition of what's a 101, what's an A, you have to understand
the different terminology about testing.

There's a ton of different kind of testing for different purposes.

So I think that there is a, the MCAS is at kindergarten.

Now, I don't want to try to talk about statewide testing because it's never been part of
my job description, but this is what I see when I see results.

So we have statewide testing, have district-wide testing, we have progress monitoring, we
have benchmark testing.

You'll hear all of these words around testing and it's because they all have a different
purpose and they use different instruments and my biggest concern is that the data are not

written clearly for parents.

There's not one scale that all of those tests could have different scales and different
standards.

And so you're trying to explain to families, oh, your child grew.

This is a good example on iReady.

That is a progress monitoring tool that schools use three times a year in the fall, in the
winter, and in the spring.

And so you'll get a report that your child has grown.

The problem is it looks great on paper because the graph, you know, from this testing to
the last testing is like this, and you're like,

It's growth.

When you break it down and you get into what that growth means, what you really want to
know is that growth the same as the average kid?

Is that growth better than the average kid?

Is that growth average or is that growth not up to standards?

So I gained five points.

It of goes back to the nape.

You know, we made up tonight's plays.

But it's a two point gain on a 500 point scale.

It's the same concept of are we closing the gap?

Are we making actual progress to grade standards?

To grade level standards?

Am I learning the skills?

And those kinds of scores on tests very seldom tell us that.

If you don't know how to analyze them, if you can't break them down, you don't know.

So I've said in meetings where

Yeah.

have been told, your child made so much progress.

Look at this.

Look how many points it came up.

And I'm over there figuring and saying, oh, compared to the average kid, he made 50 %
progress.

50 % of what the average kid, so he's never going to catch up.

If you don't make average progress, you're never going to catch up.

You're just going to get further behind.

And that's what happens.

And our families don't realize that's what's happening.

They never get that picture.

they get the picture, oh look, he's growing.

Well, what does growth mean?

I question, what does growth mean?

What does data mean?

What does score mean?

I question everything.

What is the real meaning of that information?

But David, to go back to your uh talk about testing.

So when we're talking about special education, we are talking about an initial evaluation.

That's the first step to get your child evaluated for special education.

Those assessments are very specific and they have to be given by people with specific
qualifications.

They're not group tests.

They're individual tests.

And not only that, they're chosen for individuals.

So I just have to parent write a letter this morning asking for a comprehensive evaluation
for a child who's never been identified.

And he's in the fourth grade and can't read.

so we went through, tell me what he's doing in this area.

Tell me his...

struggles in paying attention.

Tell me it struggles with math.

Tell me it struggles with reading.

So that we could ask for specific kinds of tests.

oh one problem is that a parent say, I my kid tested for special ed.

And then they go and the school just greets to test.

But the parent doesn't even understand what the tests are for or what their area of the
testing.

And then they come back and say it's not eligible.

Well, why not?

I mean, what are they looking at?

What is this?

Again, what is the criteria?

What is the standard?

And why exactly would they say that they're not eligible?

uh know, assessment is, that's my thing.

That's what I did, primarily when I was working in, all I did when I was working in the
public school system.

If you don't have that knowledge and that expertise to say, did they give the right test?

Did they interpret it right?

Did they score it right?

uh You know, is this a test that's viable?

for your child that we need to drop back.

I keep seeing baselines on a piece of zero.

Well, if you have a zero baseline, and I asked in a meeting a couple of weeks ago, so what
does a zero baseline tell us about what he can do right now?

What can he do right now in oral communication?

And they tell me, he can't do anything.

And then I said, well, what about Steph Carey?

He can't do anything.

And we went down the list.

I know it was a zero and everything.

He can't do anything.

So my question was, is he alive?

Is he breathing?

Nobody does, can't do anything.

you

know to look for that kind of thing, right?

And that's why they need an advocate.

It's a shame.

I would love to live long enough to see the day when parents don't need an advocate.

Unfortunately, they will.

If they have a kid with a disability, at some point, they're gonna have to consult with
somebody who has deeper knowledge and more technical knowledge than they do.

And that's...

That's where we, I'm a reluctant advocate.

I did not intend to be an advocate.

I intended to retire and work in a garden and play with my dog.

But my phone just kept ringing.

At one point I had over 200 clients in a year.

That's not even manageable, but it's also tells the story of what's happening.

Why does why did this mean parents need an advocate?

And I don't know exact numbers, but maybe 1 % of those didn't need an advocate and what
they were asking for was not something they were guaranteed under IDA.

It was not something they were entitled to.

It's not something that the school district had to do or was violating their rights over.

And I tell them that and I say you don't need me.

That's a personnel issue or that's something to take up with your school board.

That's something to take up with your principal.

But all the others, all the others uh really did need an advocate and not a little bit.

The problem was huge when I would look at it and the older the kids were, you know, the
bigger the problem was and the harder it is to fix.

And we talked earlier about the fourth grade reading level.

So ah how would a child with special needs, because in most cases, his reading level is
going to be much lower than the average.

ah

How would his numbers or his reading level figure into statewide numbers as far as reading
level or reading literacy or whatever?

uh Okay, go ahead.

Does that affect the state's numbers?

Yes, it does.

That was a good question.

That one I can answer.

Is that they do have to factor in what those results are for kids with IEPs.

And there's a limited number of kids, it's a percentage that can take the alternate
assessment.

They're taught to alternate standards and they take the alternate assessments.

uh One of the things that I worry about, the...

uh

Superintendent of Education, I have not heard the whole thing yet, so I don't really want
to speak about having listened to it, but what I understand is that he did say, well,

we're not doing well.

Our scores dropped this year.

You know, we're going to have to figure this out.

But somebody said that really it was about raising the standards for the people that could
take the test, and I didn't understand that, so I need to do

some more work on that.

if somebody else knows about that and understands that, that'd be great to have them on
and explain all of that.

But going back to the NAPES course, David, our uh kids with disabilities, their literacy
rate is 8%.

92 % of our students with disabilities are functionally illiterate.

And people will say because of

ableism that well that's what you would expect for a kid with a disability.

No, because only 5 % of kids somewhere between 3 and 5 % of kids have low incidence
handicapping conditions.

Those are the kids that have the most specialized and sometimes most significant needs.

So not every kid with a disability has that level of need.

We're talking about kids with average IQ who don't read on grade level.

They have dyslexia.

We're talking about kids um with, um I'm sorry, uh language speech kids, that was the
other part.

Yeah, some of them are, they're only getting language speech services.

They should be capable of reading.

So when we talk about kids with disabilities, we're talking about all the kids that have
an IP.

We're talking about the average kids.

We're talking about the kids with ADHD.

We're talking about the kids with a language disability.

Why are 88 % of our kids with disabilities reading at grade level proficiently?

uh I will tell you this.

This is part of what I worry about, David, and it ties back to what you were saying.

It's that one time our goal for kids with

disabilities was to be for 8 % of our kids to be functionally literate.

That's what we were, that was our goal.

Let's see if we get our kids with disabilities up to 8 % of them to be literate, which is
troubling.

And we were at 5 % or 4%.

It was lower than 8%.

And so what the state decided to do was lower our goal.

We lowered our goal to 5 % because that was achievable.

So I caution everybody when you're hearing all of these numbers and things like, we met
our goal.

Oh, we corrected noncompliance.

But what does that mean?

What does that mean?

And again, I am very suspicious.

I love numbers.

I take those numbers.

I get that NAEP report card and I tear it apart.

I analyze it from every point of view to see, is this real progress?

Is this really progress?

What are we talking about when we talk about progress?

Is it progress for everybody?

it progress for our children of color?

Is it progress for our children with disabilities?

And if it's not, why not?

But nobody's looking at the root cause of that.

Nobody's looking at the solution for that.

Why do we have that?

Why do we have that discrepancy?

uh I love your passion.

I love your passion.

I mean, it shows.

And it shows in your mannerisms.

It shows in your voice.

It shows in your eyes.

And that means a lot.

And you mentioned, I think you mentioned the superintendent of education.

And that is Lance Evans.

ah We have uh invited him.

ah

to meet with us and we will continue to ask him because there were several things during
the 2025 legislation, legislation, yeah, session ah that we wanted to get his comments on

and get his thoughts.

I know that he did write a letter.

to Linda McMahon asking that I think there was a hundred and oh my number may be wrong
about $137 million that Mississippi had been promised ah and then she took away.

I think, oh and once again, I don't wanna misquote anything or anybody, I think that we've
Mississippi finally got that money.

Was that money that was COVID recovery funds?

Correct.

Yes.

Okay, yeah, I think I heard that too.

Go ahead, I'm sorry, I had a thought and I'm very ADHD, it just went away.

No, no, no, but hey, me too.

And I wished I had known about Adderall when I was in college, I would have been a much
better student.

That's for sure.

But, um,

David, we are of a certain age.

you know, that memory tends to be in his sheet.

and get through it.

Um, and then for our, and I know for my kids, you know, that was, that was, you know, if
they were ADHD, there was something wrong with them.

I mean, there was something, let me rephrase that.

There was something wrong with the parents because we just didn't know how to, you know,
correct our children.

Now, either one of mine are like that, but as I do, I do have a grandson with some special
needs issues.

do still hear that.

Blame the parent gain is very strong still.

And now we're just not gonna, we're gonna ignore science and we're gonna ignore research.

So it's just gonna get worse.

like an easy out, blame the parents.

they should have used James Dobson's, oh "Parent of the Strong-Willed Child" or something,
I don't know.

I don't know where I just pulled his name out of my hat.

Mm-mm.

Go ahead.

are winding down, what final comments, suggestions would you like to tell our parents ah
with uh kids with special needs?

Any advice?

What do they need to be doing?

They need to question everything.

Of course, you've heard me say this whole podcast.

I don't believe any of numbers until I look at it myself.

So question everything.

One thing that we hear all the time, and you said it yourself, David, and you said it
about your grandson, is that we have a great school district and we have a great IEP.

And I hope you do.

And I do, I have a great relationship with the people.

that are in the special eds, you know, the special ed staff at Deskota.

And I do think they do a great job.

uh But you need to question everything.

You think your IEP looks good because somebody with authority told you it was.

But is it really?

Is your child making real progress?

Is your child having all of their needs met?

Are we having behavior problems?

Are we having school refusal?

Is the work that they're getting

rigorous.

you know, are we keeping to academic standards that are the same for everybody and is your
child achieving similarly to those kids?

And if the answer is no, or if you don't know if that's true, don't believe it just
because somebody said it.

They may not be saying it to lie to you, but they may not understand what those scores
mean either.

The other thing that we use

and parents, so important for them is grades.

uh So, I've used a trumpism.

I say that um grades equal fake news.

Don't worry about grades.

Do not worry about those grades.

What you need to be worrying about is skills.

I would love to see a grading system at some point where we base kids' and the decisions
we make for them, not on grades, but on skill development.

What skills do they have?

Gotcha.

That's a great, I'm so glad you brought that up.

So basically, let me tell you what I heard and make sure that I'm right on this.

So basically, the grades is not the main issue.

The main issue is their skills.

Where are they at now?

And maybe, I guess, would one of those skills be what reading level they're at?

What skills should a special needs parent, uh what skills should they be looking for as
their child grows and improves?

So your IP should have goals uh on the areas and the domains that your child has
weaknesses on.

So you're always looking to see, they making progress toward goals?

They're supposed to give you a progress report every nine weeks.

uh But what you're looking for is curriculum-based assessment.

Are they measuring that skill?

So if your skill is to increase your oral reading fluency, then you're looking for an
evaluation of oral reading fluency.

It's the only way to tell if you've made any progress.

Great, great.

Well, is there anything else ah that you want to share with us ah that you think our
viewers need to or anything that we need to act on?

And what can we do uh as Mississippians uh to help our special needs students?

Our parents always say, just treat our kids like typical kids.

They have the same needs as every other kid.

They need to have fun.

They need to have friends.

need the same thing.

They need to play.

uh And their special needs are primarily around learning.

Unless you're trying to teach them, then what you need to do is teach your kids they're
just different.

They're fun, just like you.

They're funny.

They like to help.

to play, they like to have friends.

And so just treat them the way you treat other kids.

Kids actually do better with it than the adults.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Well, uh one other thing you had mentioned and I'm so happy that you mentioned this.

In Mississippi on the performance and this is the nation's report card.

You talked about that the score was, you know, 500.

And let me go back to this.

In the fourth grade, Mississippi scored 219.

So, and I'm so glad that you brought up, but the high score is a 500.

And so in Mississippi, we're not even, I'm sorry.

I said nobody scores 500, but that is the scale.

It's a 500-point scale.

You know who always does the best?

Department of Defense schools.

Look at their scores.

They're amazing.

The Department of Principles.

I would, Defense, okay, I'm sorry.

Which may become the Department of War, but that's a whole different story.

We've mentioned that earlier.

So good, and in eighth grade reading, Mississippi scored a 253 once again out of

of 500.

Those are different scales.

So yeah, it's hard to compare the fourth grade.

This is why I don't like scale scores, because they're deceptive.

So it sounds like the eighth graders did better than the fourth graders.

They did not.

The score that I look at is how many kids score proficient and above.

And you can find that on our snapshot.

And that I just had a minute ago and it's 32%.

Now I'm.

Yes, ma'am.

typical kids, it's 32%.

Now, what you need to do is add the two categories together.

So there's one that's proficient and one that's proficient and above.

So when we're talking about literacy, we add them together.

Okay.

And so when you add them together, think they're closer to 36%.

Got that pulled up.

Okay.

yeah, that's good.

And that's good information for all of us to have.

And I do appreciate it.

I do want to give out as we close up, I do want to give out the oh Mississippi FAPE
Defense League.

oh And you can reach them at Mississippi.

Yes.

resource.

So Danita any, any final comments?

David, how much time do you have?

I said you're going to have have them back with a specific topic and we'll try to stay on
topic.

Yeah, it's okay.

That's fine.

This is, this is what Jim and I do.

We, will go off into the, to the weeds a little bit.

Then we'll come back.

But we go into the weeds.

We found out, we find out some interesting things and this was very good because you know,
oh, yeah, we scored a 216.

Well, yeah, you scored a 216 or 19, whatever it was out of 500.

So, but, this is good.

And I do.

I love your analogy.

I love your band-aid analogy and stepping on, what was it?

Stepping on bugs.

Stepping on bugs.

I was going to say frogs, but that's totally different.

so, Danita, once again, thank you so much.

We look forward to meeting with you again.

And if there's anything that we could do, please let us know.

We'd love to.

uh

love to get involved with this because uh we're talking about the Mississippi workforce.

So thank you for being with us.

uh And also, uh Jim, hopefully uh you've recovered.

uh Jim, we did miss you.

ah And as always, yes, we need subscribers.

So if you like this episode, send it to your friends, please subscribe.

It is free.

And if you learn something from this, and I'm confident that you did, I know that I did.

And it's good to have conversations like this.

But also I will become Jim here a minute and say, we need donations.

We need donations.

We need sponsors.

So please consider it.

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And you can reach that at MS Happenings.

one at gmail.com that's mshappening to the number one at gmail.com and as always may we
never become indifferent to the suffering of others thanks have a good week take care bye